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Renegades working with Beaulieu to put on this show on 16th June 2024. Renegades meeting at Rownhams Services to leave at 8.00am to convoy down to Beaulieu.
https://www.solent-renegades.co.uk/threads/beaulieu-custom-and-american-show-16th-june-2024.55909/
Polution havnt we said this from the start about electric cars?
- Thread starter saleen 192
- Start date
I dont know how the power lines under all the roads to our houses will cope if more than a couple of cars are plugged into to charge. A 13amp charger I'm sure will be fine, but using most of the 100A supply to the house, I'm sure the cables will have issues if everyone draws high current at the same time.
Also the extraction of the raw materials can be high in carbon, as many deisel vehicles are used.
If the batteries are recycled, this is also power intensive.
Some days is seems Petrol cars are better than electric, yes there is emmisions and spread out over many vehicles. Electric cars just seem to be moving the emmisions somewhere else.
Also the extraction of the raw materials can be high in carbon, as many deisel vehicles are used.
If the batteries are recycled, this is also power intensive.
Some days is seems Petrol cars are better than electric, yes there is emmisions and spread out over many vehicles. Electric cars just seem to be moving the emmisions somewhere else.
saleen 192
Core Member
On your cable example the same applies to the air source heat pumps in some cases the transformer on the pole or in the street has had to be upgraded.
Yes what's the cost of recycling these ev vehicles?????
Yes what's the cost of recycling these ev vehicles?????
MustangSal..erm...Dean
New member
The underground cables in most roads are in most cases just fine, for now.
As an example - a housing development used to be modelled at 2.25kVA per property ( Avg gas heated 3 bed house), so for an existing estate, assuming maximum cable size and max fuse size in the LV pillar at the Transformer, each feeder is designed for a max load of 276kVA, and policy dictates that you would normally find a maximum of 75 houses on a feeder (there are lots of exceptions to that, but for this example we shall stick with it for ease).
So, normal averaged load would be 75 x 2.25 = 169kVA - meaning there is approx. 107kVA of available capacity on a feeder, on an averaged basis. EV's tend to charge at roughly the same time of day, so at 7kW load, that means 15 out of each 75 customers could be charging their cars at the same time. These numbers do not take into account the diversity of the feeder, who is home, who is not, who is in the shower, using the oven, etc etc. But with load balancing ( which is what is being planned) that could increase to 25 or 30 properties charging simultaneously quite easily. And that is only looking at the "designed to" ratings of the cables. The cables, sub and fusing are all rated to higher than the design rating for obvious reasons.
With that said, DNO's need to (and are) make(ing) many changes to their policies and processes if EV usage and heat pumps becomes as widely adopted as predicted, but that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone given large parts of the electricity (and gas and water) infrastructure are in excess of 50years old.....
As an example - a housing development used to be modelled at 2.25kVA per property ( Avg gas heated 3 bed house), so for an existing estate, assuming maximum cable size and max fuse size in the LV pillar at the Transformer, each feeder is designed for a max load of 276kVA, and policy dictates that you would normally find a maximum of 75 houses on a feeder (there are lots of exceptions to that, but for this example we shall stick with it for ease).
So, normal averaged load would be 75 x 2.25 = 169kVA - meaning there is approx. 107kVA of available capacity on a feeder, on an averaged basis. EV's tend to charge at roughly the same time of day, so at 7kW load, that means 15 out of each 75 customers could be charging their cars at the same time. These numbers do not take into account the diversity of the feeder, who is home, who is not, who is in the shower, using the oven, etc etc. But with load balancing ( which is what is being planned) that could increase to 25 or 30 properties charging simultaneously quite easily. And that is only looking at the "designed to" ratings of the cables. The cables, sub and fusing are all rated to higher than the design rating for obvious reasons.
With that said, DNO's need to (and are) make(ing) many changes to their policies and processes if EV usage and heat pumps becomes as widely adopted as predicted, but that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone given large parts of the electricity (and gas and water) infrastructure are in excess of 50years old.....
saleen 192
Core Member
With that said, DNO's need to (and are) make(ing) many changes to their policies and processes if EV usage and heat pumps becomes as widely adopted as predicted, but that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone given large parts of the electricity (and gas and water) infrastructure are in excess of 50years old.....
DNO = distribution network operator
Lots of domestic properties are still 60amp rated and not the normal 100amp so if using cooker shower and heat pump at the same time could take it over the limit,
as you say they balance the loading property 1 will be on L1 phase property 2 L2 property L3 IE 3 phase so one phase is lost next door wont be
some times they are daisy changed as well
they used to line tap of con centric cables in they ground don't know if they do know days?????
going back to production pollution mining making plastics , they say we are going more environment friendly but the emissions and air quality is going down (worse) not improving so surly all this eco stuff isn't working
DNO = distribution network operator
Lots of domestic properties are still 60amp rated and not the normal 100amp so if using cooker shower and heat pump at the same time could take it over the limit,
as you say they balance the loading property 1 will be on L1 phase property 2 L2 property L3 IE 3 phase so one phase is lost next door wont be
some times they are daisy changed as well
they used to line tap of con centric cables in they ground don't know if they do know days?????
going back to production pollution mining making plastics , they say we are going more environment friendly but the emissions and air quality is going down (worse) not improving so surly all this eco stuff isn't working
Last edited:
Wow, some great info there. Thanks for posting.
saleen 192
Core Member
The raw materials used in manufacturing a heat pump are a lot more than manufacturing a boiler and the you have the gas inside the heat pump as well,
MustangSal..erm...Dean
New member
Correct, there are indeed a lot of properties which are still on 60A fuses - however there is a process in place in which the installer should be checking all of this, then making the application to the DNO where needed. They should not be installing without first load checking!
Looped supplies are more troublesome, but again, there are policies in place to assist with resolving this also.
As for line tapping, still happens for service cables!
The load balancing I am referring to goes a little further than just properties being on alternate phases, the balancing would be at local substation level and would involve constant monitoring of connected phases on each feeder (via smart metring CT's). Where the load is high, the available power would be reduced in order to ensure no fuses pop... this would be a live system which constantly adjusts to ensure that everyone has a safe, reliable supply. This was trialled a number of years ago in a project called "My electric avenue" and there are/were trials by other DNO's too.
Is it perfect right now? no, definitely not. Are all DNO's doing all they can (within the remit of their licence conditions) to make it happen? Absolutely they are.
Pollution will always be a factor in anything humans do, but quite frankly there are bigger fish to fry than claiming EV car manufacture outweighs manufacture of any other type of vehicle....
Looped supplies are more troublesome, but again, there are policies in place to assist with resolving this also.
As for line tapping, still happens for service cables!
The load balancing I am referring to goes a little further than just properties being on alternate phases, the balancing would be at local substation level and would involve constant monitoring of connected phases on each feeder (via smart metring CT's). Where the load is high, the available power would be reduced in order to ensure no fuses pop... this would be a live system which constantly adjusts to ensure that everyone has a safe, reliable supply. This was trialled a number of years ago in a project called "My electric avenue" and there are/were trials by other DNO's too.
Is it perfect right now? no, definitely not. Are all DNO's doing all they can (within the remit of their licence conditions) to make it happen? Absolutely they are.
Pollution will always be a factor in anything humans do, but quite frankly there are bigger fish to fry than claiming EV car manufacture outweighs manufacture of any other type of vehicle....
saleen 192
Core Member
so question then is the manufacturing pollution of a new EV more than a ICE (internal combustion engine) car?
MustangSal..erm...Dean
New member
Even if it were, we have been manufacturing ICE for what, 100years. EV for 10? and compare the volumes too... pretty sure EV's have a way to go before they will have caused more pollution overall!
saleen 192
Core Member
Correct, there are indeed a lot of properties which are still on 60A fuses - however there is a process in place in which the installer should be checking all of this, then making the application to the DNO where needed. They should not be installing without first load checking!
you and i both know alot of installers don't do all the checks dont talk to me about subcontractors ether .........
Looped supplies are more troublesome, but again, there are policies in place to assist with resolving this also. ARE you sure lol lots still out there ie old housing estates and caravan parks
As for line tapping, still happens for service cables! DID WONDER
The load balancing I am referring to goes a little further than just properties being on alternate phases, the balancing would be at local substation level and would involve constant monitoring of connected phases on each feeder (via smart metring CT's). Where the load is high, the available power would be reduced in order to ensure no fuses pop... this would be a live system which constantly adjusts to ensure that everyone has a safe, reliable supply. This was trialled a number of years ago in a project called "My electric avenue" and there are/were trials by other DNO's too.
Did aload of ct work in bashingstoke many years ago and mini form sub stations with in comercial properties
Is it perfect right now? no, definitely not. Are all DNO's doing all they can (within the remit of their licence conditions) to make it happen? Absolutely they are.
Pollution will always be a factor in anything humans do, but quite frankly there are bigger fish to fry than claiming EV car manufacture outweighs manufacture of any other type of vehicle.... EV AND ICE WAS IN RELATION TO POST HEAD LINE AND ICE CAN BE RECYCLED ALOT OF TIME DUE TO RECYCLED MATERIAL UNLIKE PLASTICS (AT THE MOMENT)
you and i both know alot of installers don't do all the checks dont talk to me about subcontractors ether .........
Looped supplies are more troublesome, but again, there are policies in place to assist with resolving this also. ARE you sure lol lots still out there ie old housing estates and caravan parks
As for line tapping, still happens for service cables! DID WONDER
The load balancing I am referring to goes a little further than just properties being on alternate phases, the balancing would be at local substation level and would involve constant monitoring of connected phases on each feeder (via smart metring CT's). Where the load is high, the available power would be reduced in order to ensure no fuses pop... this would be a live system which constantly adjusts to ensure that everyone has a safe, reliable supply. This was trialled a number of years ago in a project called "My electric avenue" and there are/were trials by other DNO's too.
Did aload of ct work in bashingstoke many years ago and mini form sub stations with in comercial properties
Is it perfect right now? no, definitely not. Are all DNO's doing all they can (within the remit of their licence conditions) to make it happen? Absolutely they are.
Pollution will always be a factor in anything humans do, but quite frankly there are bigger fish to fry than claiming EV car manufacture outweighs manufacture of any other type of vehicle....
EV AND ICE WAS IN RELATION TO POST HEAD LINE AND ICE CAN BE RECYCLED ALOT OF TIME DUE TO RECYCLED MATERIAL UNLIKE PLASTICS (AT THE MOMENT)MustangSal..erm...Dean
New member
Agree with all of your responses. Especially contractors and installers, Bain of my life!Correct, there are indeed a lot of properties which are still on 60A fuses - however there is a process in place in which the installer should be checking all of this, then making the application to the DNO where needed. They should not be installing without first load checking!
you and i both know alot of installers don't do all the checks dont talk to me about subcontractors ether .........
Looped supplies are more troublesome, but again, there are policies in place to assist with resolving this also. ARE you sure lol lots still out there ie old housing estates and caravan parks
As for line tapping, still happens for service cables! DID WONDER
The load balancing I am referring to goes a little further than just properties being on alternate phases, the balancing would be at local substation level and would involve constant monitoring of connected phases on each feeder (via smart metring CT's). Where the load is high, the available power would be reduced in order to ensure no fuses pop... this would be a live system which constantly adjusts to ensure that everyone has a safe, reliable supply. This was trialled a number of years ago in a project called "My electric avenue" and there are/were trials by other DNO's too.
Did aload of ct work in bashingstoke many years ago and mini form sub stations with in comercial properties
Is it perfect right now? no, definitely not. Are all DNO's doing all they can (within the remit of their licence conditions) to make it happen? Absolutely they are.
Pollution will always be a factor in anything humans do, but quite frankly there are bigger fish to fry than claiming EV car manufacture outweighs manufacture of any other type of vehicle....
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